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ABOUT LAW moderated by Phil Bartle
I respect everyone's
right to share their ideas, but Mr. Gibson hasn't done that. He's
shared the ideas of five other individuals. Quotes can be amazing
tools, they should be used to support and add value to what we have to
say...not replace it.
I have been reading
the opinions from your students and feel very sad for you having to teach
that class this semester. Since a large portion seem to want to discuss
the "Law" and "criminal" issue, I thought I'd like to add a couple quotes
of importance:
"An unjust
law is itself a species of violence. Arrest for its breach is more so."
In Response to the anonymous
Teacher... My first thought is... I don't know how every-one feels
about any-one entering this blog anonymously? teacher or student? especially
in sociology! if you want to contribute welcome the acknowledgement. People
can say a lot of things, but standing behind what you say is another. Especially
when it comes to Teaching, Law, and Politics. (quote) "This do not fit
with basic statistic analysis"? we all make errors, even teachers.
The idea of "lead by example" comes to mind! Yes there is a limitation
in the charter...under section (32) Application of Charter the Exception...
Any legislature may pass an act violating certain aspects, as long as it
says explicitly that it is doing so. Strange System which courts can overrule
the legislature but legislatures can overrule the courts? Notwithstanding
clause, Section 33 of the Charter, allows federal or provincial governments
to pass laws that violate certain sections of the Charter. Reasonable limits
clause, Section 1 of the Charter, which allows the courts to uphold a law
even if it violates a Charter right? Taken from the Canadian Politics concise
third edition, Rand Dyck, and The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
in the Constitution Act of 1982. Recently myself, along with a group of
students, felt extremely let down by a Teacher's disregard of obvious misconduct,
and to make matters seemingly more crucial, these are Criminal Justice
Students. What kind of message does that give? It is no wonder our system
lacks Integrity? Somehow we all have to strive to be more Vigilant. Especially
our Teachers. C.Jones
I do not support any illegal actions...it
undermines the democratic system. Having said that, when the
freedoms we sacrifice to maintain the social contract become too great,
we are often left with little choice but to revolt. There are times
when certain actions challenge our fundamental beliefs.
Regards,
Comment:
As I say on this web site, I do not edit student contributions, except
to remove telephone numbers, email addresses and ID numbers. I can
see why you want to change the contribution. Obviously ending a sentence
with a preposition is something up with which you will put, as in: "fought
hard for." You have a unique way of spelling "Canadians" without
the second "a." We learn that there is a difference between measuring
and counting, and should talk about "fewer members," rather than "less
members." The word "media" is a plural word, the singular of which
is "medium." such as newspapers, radio, TV. It might better be said
as "media today have been" rather than "has." I do not like the idea
of anonymous contributions, and request that you identify yourself, but
then, I can understand why you used a hotmail address and wrote anonymously.
Phil Bartle
I do not support any illegal actions...it
undermines the democratic system. Having said that, when the
freedoms we sacrifice to maintain the social contract become too great,
we are often left with little choice but to revolt. There are times
when certain actions challenge our fundamental beliefs.
The initial post commented
on educators having a responsibility to emphasize the importance in abiding
by the law. I fully agree. However I can also see the opposite standpoint
being the importance in teaching our children not to let people, or the
government, walk all over us and compromise our rights. Perhaps the teachers
aren't taking the best path, but perhaps the government isn't either. Having
met such a rigid opposition so quickly might be a good indication that
taking a step back, returning things to as they were, and considering more
closely the impact of their proposal could prove more beneficial in the
long run. I agree that education is incredibly important, especially for
those nearing graduation. But for those grads that might continue on to
education, they're going to want to be entering their field on fair grounds.
Myself included.
The strike action that you are
all commenting on is missing a few things:
Please see:
http://www.bctf.ca/TakingAStand/archive/2005-06/2005-10-07.html
In 1919, in Winnipeg, labour
went on general strike to show employers in general that they have the
right to refuse to offer labour. This right is being denied to teachers,
however, in line with the right of all Candians to protest against unlawful
laws, the teachers are protesting against Teachers' Collective Agreement
Act (AKA Bill 12).
While there is a good
argument about essential services not being able to strike, essential services
are those social offerings that are required to maintain "public health
and safety" (See Canadian Labour Code). Education, while arguably
a right for all citizens (not a guaranteed right under the Charter of Rights
and Freedoms), is not an essential service. Which other essential
service is not available 24 hours a day?
The media today has been reporting
that only a slight majority of the membership turned out for the vote to
strike until they vote to return.
They are reporting that at 90% vote
in favour, there is less than a mojority of members who voted in favour
of this action. This do not fit with basic statistic analysis.
A representative sample of teachers was taken, and from this representative
sample, an overwhelming majority of the sample supported this action.
I am somewhat saddened
by the recent teachers strike. For high school grade 12 students, this
is a very important year for the students to prepare themselves for post
secondary opportunites, which means they have to work hard and gain the
most knowledge they can from their teachers and studies...but how are they
supposed to do so when the teachers are out there walking the line for
their rights? this poses a threat on all students, not just "grade 12's,"
you never stop learning, and that is why it is important to have teachers
in our lives. My younger siblings are affected by this strike, so it hits
close to home, fortunately as university/college students, our main concern
is never-ending tuition hikes, and a trying to find parking at the campus
at 8:34 a.m .....
I realize that some of
this has already been stated, so I hope that everything has not already
been stated. Simply, I am for the teachers strike. Those who
are opposed to it, I believe, are not aware of the actual reasons for it
to have been started in the first place. The teachers have the right
to negotiate their contract, and some people believe that didn't like what
was offered...so they went on strike. The fact is that the teachers
have not had a negotiated contract, or even the chance to sit down and
talk about a reasonable contract, for almost two years. Regardless
to that fact that teacher want salary, class sizes and working and learning
conditions addressed...here are some more facts. Seven or so years
ago, BC teachers made a contract with the current government (at the time
NDP) to not take a salary increase, but instead reduce class size to a
reasonable level, and this stayed in effect for a few years. When
the Liberal government took over, they decided (on their own) to take that
part out of the teachers contract. More recently, the liberal government
told teachers that “at the negotiation table,” they would not be able
to talk about “class sizes, wage increases, or working conditions,”
followed by (not in so many words)“ now lets talk about that contract.”
This left teachers with nothing to plea for. This strike may be affecting
the children in public school, but it is no more the teachers fault for
this effect than it is the government. I know that I would not want
the person who writes my checks to tell me that I have no right to the
conditions of my employment. When it comes to “breaking the law,” the
law needs to first be fair. The government can impose any law that
may not always seem fair to the public. If the voices of those which
the law affects are not heard, actions such as the strike need to be taken
to protect their freedoms.
"Illegal" strike? or the removal of workers Rights?
I am definitely in favour of a stance
against government legislation which limits the working class from rising
up against their employers.
Unions have been squashed indiscriminately
since 1980 and since then government has assisted in continued legislation
limiting the ability of workers to take a stand. Now that strikes are considered
illegal because of a deemed "essential service" title, who's to say that
every service will fall under some kind of new category deemed in need.
"In need of profit service" is the next step for corporations to push government
into creating a new law. Then every
law abiding citizen ... or should we say "worker oppressing citizen with
false consciousness" will stand up for big business in the idea of what
is right and what is wrong- legality?. Approximately 85% of law was created
to protect corporations and their property in case of any disrupts from
workers all stemming
back to the Ludites. The laws have
always been to protect the rich and oppress the poor. The "Poor Act" comes
to mind. Now we believe that 6% unemployment is necessary. Although unemployment
is a government choice which only represses workers and keeps wages low
(Keynes Theory).
The bulk of our working class,
which is about 80% of the people in Canada, need to remove the rose coloured
lenses from our eyes. With the middle class continually pushed down through
wage decreases, downsizing, privatization, and negative government legislation,
we need to wake up and take back our workers rights to stand up and strike.
Without this right the working class holds no power and no voice and will
only increase the polarization of our two-tier class system.
In the news about a month
ago I read about a woman protesting in front of the white house against
Bush's War. She was hauled off to jail and fined because she used a microphone
to communicate to the crowd of citizens that believed in her plea. The
reason she was fined? New government legislation. She required a permit
from the government to use a microphone to protest the government. Funny
how you can always see a problem from the standpoint of who benefits most.
The capitalist class. When will people rise up against our government
of elected officials who are put in place to assist their people? Instead
government only acts as
a puppet against their own people
to oppress and further corporate
objectives of union and worker suppression.
The choice of puppet number one and puppet number two has never mattered,
the working class has been getting the shaft for 25 years.. since Mulroney,
Reagan and Thatcher began the shift away from the Keynesian state and our
golden years, to our "new-right" capitalist dominated times.
In my opinion the strike
is not as important as the ability the strike gives to waking up public
perspectives. Unfortunately I am optimistic this will be achieved, if the
Hijacking of the ferry in France by its workers a few weeks ago would prove.
A ferry was hijacked by its workers who were protesting the upcoming privatization
of the ferry system in France. The French military was called in to control
the situation (as what has always happened when workers rise up in other
countries against changes that hurt them and the people.. only to find
the government sends in the military to silence them by ANY means). The
strikers are now facing possible jail terms of up to 20 years.
If workers don't have
the ability to strike what power do they have? And once the workers have
no power what do you think will happen? I see a massive shift to the bottom
with the richest few on the top and the masses in the oppressed class on
the bottom. Of course this is when Marxian theory gets tested.
I have a fifty-fifty stance
on the teacher's strike. On one hand I am in favour of the "illegal" strike.
Class sizes and cuts to support staff are out of control. Teachers, nowadays,
have it quite rough. Conversely, the legal side of me does not support
the strike. When people break the law they are basically tossing out any
order we have in our society. However, this brings up and argument that
the removal of collective bargaining rights is also illegal. In my mind
at least; it is a tautology (I hope that is not out of context).
To sum my argument up:
Teachers do deserve a better deal than the one that is currently before
them. However, it is essential that the bargaining be done in the boundaries
of our legal construct, because what is the point of legislation if no
one abides to it.
A side note: If any parents
in the class are incurring extra costs in day care or other programs as
a direct result of the "illegal" strike; you may want to consider spear-heading
a class action suit against the BCTF. It will most likely be successful.
The British Columbia
Teacher's Federation(BCTF) went out on strike Friday, bringing over 42,000
of their members onto the picket line in a strike called illegal by the
Labour Relations Board and strike-busting legislation brought in by the
BC Government. The indefinite strike means 600,000 students are out of
classes, as the province's elementary and secondary schools have closed.
Public sector unions working
in education-related fields have vowed to support the BCTF. Over 25,000
Canadian Union of Public Employees support workers, and numerous other
workers from unions such as the BCGEU, are refusing to cross the picket
lines.
The wildcat strike, being
declared as a political protest by some within the union, comes after the
Government's representatives effectively refused to collectively bargain
with the union. In September, teachers voted 88.4% in favour of a strike
mandate. The Government's response on Monday was to introduce Bill 12 –
a piece of legislation forcing teachers back to work under the same conditions
for a year without negotiation.
In the face of draconian
measures making any strike by the BCTF an illegal act, the teachers voted
90.5% in favour of strike action on a second vote on Wednesday. On
Friday, teachers flooded the picket lines as political activists, students,
unionists, and members of the community came out in force to support the
strike. Public reaction has so far been strongly in support of the strike.
The Teachers are demanding
a return to collective bargaining rights in the province, and their fight
is one of demanding fundamental rights to freedom of association through
unions. Their chief bargaining demand is reduced class sizes and the restoration
of services to students that have been cut by the Government. They are
also demanding an increase in wages, while the Government has clearly stated
they want no increases(the Government is refusing to offer them an increase),
meaning the value of wages will actually fall in the face of cost-of-living
increases.
A History of Strike Breaking
The dominant political
party in BC, the BC Liberals led by Gordon Campbell, has a history of strike
breaking and aggressive privatization of public assets. In April and May
of 2004, the Campbell government imposed a 14% pay cut and massive privatization
on the Hospital Employee's Union, triggering wildcat sympathy strikes throughout
the province. Although the HEU strike was eventually put down through a
controversial deal orchestrated with the trade union bureaucracy, resentment
towards government remains high across the province.
While the BCTF's strike
is about freedom of association and collective bargaining, it is also a
fight over the future direction of the public education system. The core
demands of the teachers revolve around restoration of student services
and (reasonable) class sizes. There is also the question of privatization,
as the Government has pursued an aggressive policy of privatization and
union-busting throughout the public sector. There are strong signs that
the government may move towards privatizing parts of the public education
system if they are able to win in their fight against the teachers.
Political Response
The New Democratic Party,
led by Carol James, currently the opposition party to the BC Liberals in
the provincial legislature, is seen by many as the leading political opposition
to the Government's policies. However, during the 90's the NDP majority
government steamrolled over the BCTF during two consecutive terms.
While the NDP wants to gain
political mileage from the conflict by publicly issuing statements of support
for the teachers, they have refused to concretely support the illegal strike.
Carol James, the leader of the party, has said the teachers should "obey
the law" when it comes to defying back-to-work legislation imposed by the
government.
There is also skepticism
over the role of the BC Federation of Labour, who have recently stepped
into negotiations with the government over the dispute. While the BCFed
backs the BCTF, many working people remember the BCTF's sellout of the
HEU strikers in May of 2004. The BCFed's refusal to organize resistance
to the assault on trade unionism pushed by the government in 2002 also
puts in doubt the bureaucracy's commitment to supporting the strikers.
While the Campbell government
calls for strikers to "return to work" and for "respect for the rule of
law", they are increasingly facing accusations of unfairly applying the
law. In the case of Telus workers who have been on strike against the private-sector
telecommunications company for weeks, the government and courts have consistently
refused to punish corporate management for using replacement workers in
clear violation of the Labour Relations Code.
Support for the strike remains
strong throughout the province, with both the Government and BCTF digging
in their heels for a show down that could determine the future of the public
education system and collective bargaining in the province.
The current teacher strike
does not affect me personally, but it does affect my siblings. Law is law
in my opinion and as an educator one should be educating children on the
importance of abiding by law in a civilized society. Granted teachers concerns
may be well founded and their fight may be just, but as I see it they voted
for the NDP (a complete generalization) and the majority of the public
voted for the liberals and the liberals won. When a service is deemed to
be essential, strikes become unacceptable, where would we be if the police
went on strike? Teachers need to realize that who they are really hurting
are the students first and foremost. Elections are where democratic people
make their power and decisions felt, not during illegal strikes. Next time
I drive by a school I may have to make a citizens arrest.
Comments welcome.
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